Andy White Anthropology
  • Home
  • Research Interests
    • Complexity Science
    • Prehistoric Social Networks
    • Eastern Woodlands Prehistory
    • Ancient Giants
  • Blog
  • Work in Progress
    • The Kirk Project >
      • Kirk 3D Models list
      • Kirk 3D Models embedded
      • Kirk 2D images >
        • Indiana
        • Kentucky
        • Michigan
        • Ontario
      • Kirk Project Datasets
    • Computational Modeling >
      • FN3D_V3
    • Radiocarbon Compilation
    • Fake Hercules Swords
    • Wild Carolina >
      • Plants >
        • Mosses
        • Ferns
        • Conifers
        • Flowering Plants >
          • Grasses
          • Trees
          • Other Flowering Plants
      • Animals >
        • Birds
        • Mammals
        • Crustaceans
        • Insects
        • Arachnids
        • Millipedes and Centipedes
        • Reptiles and Amphibians
      • Fungi
  • Annotated Publications
    • Journal Articles
    • Technical Reports
    • Doctoral Dissertation
  • Bibliography
  • Data

Hercules, Commodus, and the Florida Sword

1/7/2016

24 Comments

 
One of the main warrants put forward by J. Hutton Pulitzer and the Ancient Artifact Preservation Society (AAPS) for the authenticity of the alleged "Roman sword" from Nova Scotia is that it "matches" the Florida sword and has been "proved authentic" by "Roman Antiquities authorities." Pulitzer has yet to identify the "Roman Antiquities authorities" that have supposedly verified the authenticity of the Nova Scotia sword, but I wanted to take the time today to do some pre-buttal of what I anticipate he's going to say on that matter.  

First, here is what Pulitzer has said:

    "This sword is a gladiator ceremonial “votive” sword as verified by the Roman Antiquities authority participating in the study. . . .
    The Oak Island sword may in fact be part of what could be as many as an original ten piece set. Four seem to of have been recovered and verified, including this one, since they were first made during the ancient Roman Empire.
    
One is known to be in a private collection in Florida and it is a perfect litmus test for the Oak Island Roman sword. Others are said to be in a private museum in the Netherlands and a museum in Naples.
    In fact the sword, at one point was such a famous attraction in Naples that the museum commissioned a foundry cast iron replica to be made. . . . 
    Yes, the sword has been proved authentic, by Roman Antiquities authorities, established technologies such as 
XRF testing
, and also vetted by the producers for inclusion in The Curse of Oak Island."

Pulitzer seems to have "borrowed" much of his interpretation of the sword more-or-less directly from David Kenney, owner of the Florida sword. On his webpage, Kenney describes the figure that forms the hilt of the sword as "Commodus as Hercules of the North," and suggests that "this sword "may" have been used in an initiation of a mystery of Hercules and magnetic north." Consider that statement in light of Pulitzer's claim that the Nova Scotia sword has "an ancient ocean navigational device built into it which causes the sword to point true north" (see this post) and the cover of allegedly to-be-published book titled Commodus's Secret: Dirty Secrets Behind History Channel's "Curse of Oak Island" and the Truth about the Lost Roman Legion, Holy Solomonic Relics and the Secret of Hercules of the North.

(Side note: Pulitzer's book(s) for sale on this page have apparently been on "pre-order" for some time now. I have talked to several people online who have paid their money and have yet to receive anything. [Update 1/9/2016: I originally stated that the book(s) had been on pre-order for at least two years. Pulitzer emailed me to say that was incorrect. I have asked him to provide me with a correct statement of how long the book(s) have been on pre-order and modified my statement while I await a response. In the meantime, the Solomon's Secret website that was marketing the books has become "private."] [Update 1/11/2016: This post provides evidence that the Solomon's Secret website was launched about two years ago, and ads for the book pre-order have been up for over a year. Since that post, the links to the video ads have become inaccessible.]).

Kenney's webpage states that the Florida sword is a "highlighted artifact" in the lecture series Experiencing Rome: A Visual Exploration of Antiquity's Greatest Empire. I noted in my original post about the Florida sword that I was going to try to get a copy of Experiencing Rome so I could see what it said about the sword. Neither my university library nor my local county library owns it, however, and I wasn't able to request a loan over the holidays because I still haven't gotten around to getting my university ID.  Anyway, an alert reader of this blog was able to watch the part about the Florida sword over break and emailed me about it. I wanted to watch it myself before writing this post. I ended up purchasing the entire course (with funds contributed to the Woo War One campaign - thank you!) and it finally arrived yesterday.
PictureScreen capture from "Experiencing Rome" showing the hilt of the Florida sword with letters "V C" imposed.
​The lectures in Experiencing Rome are delivered by Dr. Steven Tuck, a Professor of Classics at Miami University. Here is what Tuck says in the section about the Florida sword (beginning about 28 minutes into "Emperors as Performers"):

"We're fortunate to have - and I must credit the producer of this course, James Blanford, who came up with this image - it's really very exciting. I've never seen this before in my life. It is, as far as I can tell, a unique image from the Roman world. What we have here is a votive that is a dagger that would be carried by a secutor, but it's not an actual weapon that would be carried in the arena. It's a votive, it's a dedication. What we have with this is the weapon of the secutor as a dedication, but if you look at the end of the hilt what you see is the handle and the end of the hilt actually an image of Hercules. And so it combines those two public images of Commodus together here: one of the secutor, with the shape and the form of the weapon; and the other of Hercules.  And in this case, it's Hercules with his club raised over his head. It's Hercules Invictus: Hercules unconquered as a real figure of power and of male achievement. There are also letters on here, monograms that are "V C." This could be the standard second century abbreviation for vir clarissimus, but it also might be a reference to Victor Commodus. I think this is a particularly exciting find which we're fortunate to show you. This is the first time this has been published, so you're seeing this here for the first time ever."

I corresponded briefly via email with Tuck about the appearance of the Florida sword in Experiencing Rome.  He indicated to me that he has never seen the Florida sword firsthand. Images were brought to him at the last minute by his producer (as mentioned in the lecture), and he agreed to include them because they seemed to nicely illustrate a point about Commodus. Tuck stressed that he does not consider his use of the image to be a formal endorsement of the authenticity of the Florida sword.  He also said that he believes the Nova Scotia sword is probably "a tourist piece made to sell to tourists from the past few centuries."

As far as the "V C" monogram on the front of the figure, I suspect that a close examination of the California sword (which is more detailed than the Florida sword) will reveal that the impression of letters on the Florida sword is a mirage formed by the blurred lines of Hercule's muscles and lion skin.  

Yes, the Nova Scotia sword "matches" the Florida sword (as well as the Italian eBay sword and the California sword, as you can see in an image of all the hilts compared in linked to this post from yesterday), but that doesn't mean a whole lot on its own. David Kenney has said that the metallurgical properties of his sword have not been analyzed, so we know that Pulitzer can't claim that as a basis for calling the Nova Scotia sword genuine. And now we also know that at least one "Roman antiquities expert" (Tuck) who has seen images of both the Florida and Nova Scotia swords formally endorses neither as an authentic Roman artifact.

24 Comments
Doug Crowell
1/7/2016 11:03:41 am

What does "vetted by the producers for inclusion in The Curse of Oak Island" mean? The word vetted in this statement does not speak to the authenticity of the sword, only that the producers seemingly will allow it to appear on their show. This statement isn't relevant to the first half of the sentence. It's only value is to infer support by the producers for the authenticity of the sword. Smoke and mirrors.

Reply
Andy White
1/7/2016 01:28:40 pm

Yeah, pretty robust "vetting," right? I can't believe an item of questionable authenticity would have slipped through that iron curtain of quality control.

Reply
Rose McDonald
1/14/2016 04:05:24 pm

Latest brain wave from one of the Pulitzer supporters" It's been proven the sword is genuine, it's been tested with carbon dating and ...." Whoa! Really? Carbon dating? Sheesh.

Peter Geuzen
1/7/2016 06:43:47 pm

Well, the sword shows up next week in the next episode, so things are heating up. The teaser offers a bit of video and bit of dialog. Marty: “This is phenomenal”.

http://imgur.com/3rCWjcf
http://imgur.com/1B79y0Q

Given the agonizingly drawn out style of the show I might guess it shows up in the last 30 seconds as a tease to wait yet another week for any actual details, but who knows. In the meantime, if the Laginas and the Producers are following Swordgate you have to wonder if they are making any late edits, if they even can, given that taping of major scenes was several months ago.

Reply
Scott Hamilton
1/7/2016 11:07:23 am

Did you see that Ancient Origins is still defending the sword, as late as today?

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/unraveling-origins-roman-sword-discovered-oak-island-005112

Reply
Peter Geuzen
1/7/2016 06:46:03 pm

Interesting. It reads like a follow-up spin to try to bolster relevance, with the specific suggestion that the museum somehow “issued” cast iron replicas. Is this true? Has anyone specifically contacted the museum on this story? Is this an attempt to spin deflection from brass/bronze replicas that are turning up? Does the museum have anything to do with Design Toscano? ‘Ancient-Origins’ does seem to be one of the bigger players in the fringe pool but look at the comments (including their Facebook posting for this follow-up article, where there are way more comments) and generally it seems like the majority are not buying it, including several links backs to Andy’s site, and folks noting/reminding who and where the sword story is coming from, i.e. JHP and his background.

Reply
Andy White
1/8/2016 06:12:13 am

Yeah, "issued" is a strange word choice. So far I think the only connection we have established between the iron Design Toscano swords and the brass/bronze swords is that they are reproductions of the same thing. I know several people have inquired at various Italian museums, and I've not heard of anyone getting a response. I think the most likely story is that Design Toscano put "museum replica" in their description for marketing purposes. My guess is there is probably a "museum" (or private collection) somewhere out there that contains a brass/bronze sword that was used as the template for the Design Toscano sword. That doesn't make that "original" brass/bronze sword a Roman artifact, however.

Bob Jase
1/8/2016 09:50:07 am

Considering the lack of confirmation of an original existing in a museum so far i kinda think the description was originally "museum-quality replica" and it just got shortened.

spartacus
6/15/2016 01:08:29 am

Hello Dear Peter

I just found a pictures of your swords and I am impressed.

My hobby is casting and producing of ancient weapons.

I am impressed from your color of patina, especially of olive green(Italian eBay).

Could you, please share with me how you do it.

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Kevin Schwarz
1/7/2016 04:16:24 pm

And the other tragedy is Yahoo! News still ha not corrected their story from December 18th.

Reply
Doug
1/7/2016 04:34:47 pm

I believe that was the goal. Not to change history with a Roman Sword, but to get this initial wave of articles to stick, preserved on the Internet, so that they can be cited in future exploits. Many won't scratch the surface of these articles to see how the claims were evaluated and found suspect. It seems to me that this is an exercise in brand building more so than an attempt to establish new facts.

Reply
Peter Geuzen
1/7/2016 06:48:02 pm

I agree..”an exercise in brand building” ..meaning JHP attempting to brand build, but honestly I think JHP is getting killed in the comments sections in most of the original article copy-paste outlets that posted the original story, including the fringe outlets, plus the follow-up noted above re Ancient-Origins. Bizarrely, as of last night he has said that he is doing an exclusive documentary on the ’90 foot stone’ through an exclusive agreement he has with the family that allegedly has it. He has hinted at the ’90 foot stone’ resurfacing before, but now he’s made it official - he is the ‘man’ on the ’90 foot stone’ (how convenient for him, and his book sales, yada, yada, yada). I wonder who he is doing the documentary with – Promethius (?), the Laginas (?), his own ‘team’ (?),... COMING SOON! ... >>> 90 FOOT STONEGATE <<<.

Reply
Doug
1/8/2016 08:29:39 am

Yes, I am patiently waiting for the release of this 90ft Stone research and the report he says he had commissioned by three Middle Eastern Universities. It was ready and promised for release months ago, but now is delayed, last I heard, by up to two years, because it is being made into a documentary. We are sitting on our findings regarding the 90ft Stone because we want their account stated, when we reveal what we have discovered in our own research.

Peter Geuzen
1/8/2016 10:11:46 am

I wasn't aware he actually announced this months ago. I believe he's also made claims that a family holding Templar coins allegedly from the island have approached him and that somebody with an alleged secret Masons map about the island have approached him. Just a little too convenient and coincidental that he is party to all this alleged stuff.

James Lawrence
1/8/2016 06:37:43 am

Just some additional information I scraped up that may be useful:

I believe JHP said the people/family who found the sword did so years ago but kept it secret because "due to restrictions in Nova Scotia which made all private shipwreck diving for treasure outlawed". I believe they said the family has held it for decades and only came forward when father died).

A quick search (for example here: http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/05/08/shipwrecks-will-be-lost-warns-private-operator/ ) would seem to indicate Nova Scotia was pretty accommodating with treasure hunters until just recently (quote from article "Treasure hunters used to be allowed to keep most of what they found under Nova Scotia’s Treasure Trove Act") - especially if this happened 'decades' ago.

In fact things looked to be pretty good for treasure hunters in Nova Scotia until about 2010 http://novascotia.ca/news/release/?id=20100714001

Reply
Peter Geuzen
1/8/2016 10:01:54 am

Sorry but that doesn’t make sense. If the restrictions were not bad in the past, why would they have kept it a secret in the past. If something gets looted today, yes this seems to be more contentious, but the story is that they found it many many years ago, so by your points this wouldn't have been a problem.

I think the story of how it was found and the present claim that it came from an alleged Roman shipwreck is as much up for debate as the sword itself. Hopefully the episode where it's covered sheds some light. As far as I can tell, the supposed finder family has never been named nor have they provided any official statement themselves with chain of evidence nor has any media outlet followed up to try to corroborate. The story is essentially fiction for now.

Reply
Bob Jase
1/8/2016 06:38:07 am

Reply
Andy White
1/8/2016 06:41:03 am

Insightful as always, Bob.

Reply
Bob Jase
1/8/2016 09:51:11 am

Thanks1

Mike Jones
1/8/2016 07:13:33 am

The article in Ancient Origins says: " According to Kenney, the sword hilt depicts a statuette holding a piece of driftwood, tree trunk, branch or club overhead..." So there you have it, it's not Heracles, it's a statuette.

Reply
Andy White
1/8/2016 08:36:18 am

It also links to this Wikipedia page as "the Roman Antiquities authority" (is that a person? an old book? what are they talking about?):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_Greek_and_Roman_Antiquities

Reply
sjcoll
1/14/2016 04:44:20 am

I have the same identical sword in Rome. I bought it in the '70s and it is a fake product for tourists in Rome. I have the pic if needed.

Reply
Andy White
1/14/2016 07:31:36 am

I would love to see it and get the story from you. Can you email me? aawhite@mailbox.sc.edu.

Reply
sjcoll
1/14/2016 08:28:35 am

Sure, I'll send you the picture, but the story is exactly as I wrote. My parents bought the sword in Rome,maybe in the 1975/76 it was intended as a fake ancient roman sword and they have the sword in their house from then. Sj




Leave a Reply.


    All views expressed in my blog posts are my own. The views of those that comment are their own. That's how it works.

    I reserve the right to take down comments that I deem to be defamatory or harassing. 

    Andy White

    Follow me on Twitter: @Andrew_A_White

    Email me: andy.white.zpm@gmail.com

    Enter your email address:

    Delivered by FeedBurner


    Picture

    Sick of the woo?  Want to help keep honest and open dialogue about pseudo-archaeology on the internet? Please consider contributing to Woo War Two.
    Picture

    Follow updates on posts related to giants on the Modern Mythology of Giants page on Facebook.

    Archives

    January 2023
    January 2022
    November 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    March 2021
    June 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    April 2018
    March 2018
    February 2018
    January 2018
    December 2017
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    May 2017
    April 2017
    March 2017
    February 2017
    January 2017
    December 2016
    November 2016
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    May 2016
    April 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    October 2015
    September 2015
    August 2015
    July 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    January 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014

    Categories

    All
    3D Models
    AAA
    Adena
    Afrocentrism
    Agent Based Modeling
    Agent-based Modeling
    Aircraft
    Alabama
    Aliens
    Ancient Artifact Preservation Society
    Androgynous Fish Gods
    ANTH 227
    ANTH 291
    ANTH 322
    Anthropology History
    Anunnaki
    Appalachia
    Archaeology
    Ardipithecus
    Art
    Atlantis
    Australia
    Australopithecines
    Aviation History
    Bigfoot
    Birds
    Boas
    Book Of Mormon
    Broad River Archaeological Field School
    Bronze Age
    Caribou
    Carolina Bays
    Ceramics
    China
    Clovis
    Complexity
    Copper Culture
    Cotton Mather
    COVID-19
    Creationism
    Croatia
    Crow
    Demography
    Denisovans
    Diffusionism
    DINAA
    Dinosaurs
    Dirt Dance Floor
    Double Rows Of Teeth
    Dragonflies
    Early Archaic
    Early Woodland
    Earthworks
    Eastern Woodlands
    Eastern Woodlands Household Archaeology Data Project
    Education
    Egypt
    Europe
    Evolution
    Ewhadp
    Fake Hercules Swords
    Fetal Head Molding
    Field School
    Film
    Florida
    Forbidden Archaeology
    Forbidden History
    Four Field Anthropology
    Four-field Anthropology
    France
    Genetics
    Genus Homo
    Geology
    Geometry
    Geophysics
    Georgia
    Giants
    Giants Of Olden Times
    Gigantism
    Gigantopithecus
    Graham Hancock
    Grand Valley State
    Great Lakes
    Hollow Earth
    Homo Erectus
    Hunter Gatherers
    Hunter-gatherers
    Illinois
    India
    Indiana
    Indonesia
    Iowa
    Iraq
    Israel
    Jim Vieira
    Jobs
    Kensington Rune Stone
    Kentucky
    Kirk Project
    Late Archaic
    Lemuria
    Lithic Raw Materials
    Lithics
    Lizard Man
    Lomekwi
    Lost Continents
    Mack
    Mammoths
    Mastodons
    Maya
    Megafauna
    Megaliths
    Mesolithic
    Michigan
    Middle Archaic
    Middle Pleistocene
    Middle Woodland
    Midwest
    Minnesota
    Mississippi
    Mississippian
    Missouri
    Modeling
    Morphometric
    Mound Builder Myth
    Mu
    Music
    Nazis
    Neandertals
    Near East
    Nephilim
    Nevada
    New Mexico
    Newspapers
    New York
    North Carolina
    Oahspe
    Oak Island
    Obstetrics
    Ohio
    Ohio Valley
    Oldowan
    Olmec
    Open Data
    Paleoindian
    Paleolithic
    Pilumgate
    Pleistocene
    Pliocene
    Pre Clovis
    Pre-Clovis
    Prehistoric Families
    Pseudo Science
    Pseudo-science
    Radiocarbon
    Reality Check
    Rome
    Russia
    SAA
    Sardinia
    SCIAA
    Science
    Scientific Racism
    Sculpture
    SEAC
    Search For The Lost Giants
    Sexual Dimorphism
    Sitchin
    Social Complexity
    Social Networks
    Solutrean Hypothesis
    South Africa
    South America
    South Carolina
    Southeast
    Stone Holes
    Subsistence
    Swordgate
    Teaching
    Technology
    Teeth
    Television
    Tennessee
    Texas
    Topper
    Travel
    Travel Diaries
    Vaccines
    Washington
    Whatzit
    White Supremacists
    Wisconsin
    Woo War Two
    World War I
    World War II
    Writing
    Younger Dryas

    RSS Feed

    Picture
Proudly powered by Weebly