Fake Hercules Sword 18: We Ain't Got Much

10/9/2017

I'm writing this post as a placeholder for Fake Hercules Sword 18. While we've known of the existence of this sword for over a year now, all we have is a single image and a four sentence email. I responded to the original email at three different times asking for more information but alas . . . crickets.

Anyway, in the interest of sharing what we know (and satisfying the squeaky wheels over at the Swordgate Institute of Research, I give you the only image of Fake Hercules Sword 18:

Fake Hercules Sword 18.

The owner reported that he/she lives in Louisiana and got the sword when his/her father passed away. That's all we know.

Killbuck

10/9/2017 06:43:10 am

I was up way too late reading all this.... more coffee

Andy White

10/9/2017 06:47:39 am

I'm Rh -, so I understand everything in the universe intuitively.

Peter de Geus

10/9/2017 08:19:08 am

Swordgate Institute of Research, aka S.I.R., not Institute for Swordgate Research, because I.S.R. that would be just plain silly. squeak squeak, So everything we need to see to slot this in a group type is everything we can't see in this picture. Log bump, back of headdress, circle or no circle, lion back leg, blade features. squeak squeak.

Andy White

10/9/2017 08:39:09 am

Blood from a stone.

Peter de Geus

10/9/2017 10:45:32 am

Just so this info sits here as well - as posted to the FB group, I'm going with this being Group T with a confirmed new morphologic indicator. Copy paste as follows: "There is a distinct step below the faux rivets in F that is completely gone in later Js and CSs. Our new #18 clearly has this step but it is not an F, i.e. no fuller. Checking group T that sits between F and J we only have one example, coincidentally #17, with so so pictures but I think there is enough detail to say the step exists. The new #18 thus ends up being a better frontal pic of a T with confirmation of a new morphologic indicator. Plus, the outside corner curly cue thingys, that look a bit like rivets, are very much blurred out in Js and CSs but are still pretty decent in T."

Andy White

10/9/2017 11:00:04 am

Maybe you'll have better luck getting additional information than I did. I'll forward the original email to you.

Jonathan E. Feinstein

10/12/2017 10:24:53 am

Well as has been said, we don't have much on this one although some features strike me from this one shot of the hilt. - I might repeat others' observations...

Some of the cast details are amazingly sharp. The palmette, for example, is very nicely sharp as are the lions and Herc's genitalia. The lion skin too shows the sort of details we might expect for one of the chronologically older models. Well, there could be parallel lines o descent, but how to prove? So, maybe it is more accurate to say the hilt is closer to whatever the original MOAFHS might have been.

Also the fake rivets: all five can be clearly seen even if they look like clever parts of the design.

Another interesting feature is the ragged line where the hilt ends and the blade begins. The first interesting bit is it is a sharp but ragged line, as opposed to the 3d Scan of #23 and my own $15 DT model on which it looks far closer to straight (As a side note, I compared that juncture between #23 and my DT and was a bit surprised to see some similarities in features especially on the left side of the HIlt-to-blade junction, but never mind that for now) That ragged line forms a shoulder that is vaguely reminiscent of the shoulder above the fullers on the California sword. The CA sword's shoulder has a straighter line there, but this kind of looks like someone cut the hilt of a

What struck me most was the way bits of it seem to have been filed nearly flat. The lion' skin's paws have been filed. The ones around Herc's neck are almost filed off. The lower one on Herc's left knew is a bit flatter. the one on the right knee... well reshaped at least. Also part of Herc's right foot has been filed. It might just be the way the light is hitting it, but I suspect that was done by one of the sword's owners . There has also bee work done on the body and face. The face, particularly has been reshaped to give Hercules a beaklike nose and the work on the lion's Skin's head looks more like a helmet this way. Not sure what's going on with the chin, but the whole effect make it look to me like Herc has a helmet on.. Well, it would hardly be the only one of these that an owner has not tried to "improve."

Maybe I'm projecting too much here from uncertain data., but I'm just trying to find a feature that might help slot this one in to the established groupings, but we can't even see what the top of the log likes like or the shape of the blade, which for all we can see might be flame-shaped (but hopefully isn't.

I'll stay tuned and hope more details emerge. Actually it sure is nice to see even this fresh FHS material!

Peter de Geus

10/12/2017 04:18:00 pm

Jonathan, I assumed you would chime in. The second anniversary of Swordgate is just two months away and it looks like we can keep this going to see that day..

The casting is definitely good and thus early. Without fullers it has to be a T for Transitional group. This assumes there is no model pre fullers that is without fullers other than X, but X has no faux rivets so this one can't fit X. I wonder if this one had very little applied patina or maybe cleaned long ago and just natural oxidation subsequently. More pictures would obviously be nice but Andy never got replies after initial contact and I've followed up and sent a poster picture as an incentive. No reply after a few days. It does appear as if a grinder ran over it once or some poorly advised experimental filing, resulting in the flat spots.

In other news the Timeline Morphology Model v2.0 is about ready for a world reveal, after v1.0 has lingered on Facebook. Another sword also was found by J.A. Sterling in an online classified in Spain and it appears to be a CS. This reminds me to bug Pablo to see if he followed up in Spanish.

You can see #25 at this link:
https://www.milanuncios.com/antiguedades-de-coleccion/espada-corta-de-lucha-romana-de-pompeya-231916349.htm

Peter de Geus

10/13/2017 05:56:51 am

Clarification - X does have the centre rib that makes it appear to have a double fuller down the blade but we only have one picture so its hard to say how defined it is and it blurs near the top and maybe has the same or similar step as F and T, and nonetheless no faux rivets. Too many details to remember.

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Fake Hercules Sword 18: We Ain't Got Much

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