Colonial Fence Part (?) Added to "Evidence" of Ancient Roman Occupation of Nova Scotia

1/21/2016

Here's a pro tip for you: adding more weak coffee to a pot of already-weak coffee does not make strong coffee. You're welcome.

At the beginning of #Swordgate, we were told that the Nova Scotia sword -- now shown by metallurgical analysis to have been made after 1880 -- was a "100 percent confirmed" Roman artifact that would force history to be written. The sword was put forward as the strongest component of J. Hutton Pulitzer's "Roman" pitch. Now that we've had a chance to drink that cup of "coffee" we were handed, it's obvious that it doesn't even qualify as coffee, let alone strong coffee. It was water. If that's the best you've got, you might as well just dump a bunch of ice cubes into the coffee pot. None of it's worth drinking.

But that doesn't mean he's not going to keep trying. At this point it's probably just math. If he says "I was wrong about the sword" he acknowledges that whatever credibility he once had is gone. If he doubles down, however, he might still retain some credibility within whatever group of people is still willing to believe his evidence-free assertions. So I guess that's the audience now. It makes me less interested in investigating the rest of the diluted coffee. I don't believe any of it is going to be as much fun as the sword.

The sword story isn't over. Pulitzer has implied or stated that the tests performed by Christa Brosseau at Saint Mary's Universitywere flawed because they were the wrong tests and/or they were performed by students. He has has also implied or stated that maybe the "real" sword was swapped with another one, or maybe there was a Catholic conspiracy to suppress history by faking the tests. I'm not sure what the Pope would have against fake Hercules swords, but whatever. You'll hear more about this nonsense soon. Brosseau is a professional. If you look at her her publications you'll see that. As a chemist, I'm sure she'll back me up on the reality of the "weak coffee" metaphor. And I'm sure she'll have something to say about her methods and results once she is able to talk about them (after the episode airs in Canada). Pulitzer still hasn't given us his promised results or methods, but is anyone really surprised by that?

So there will be more coming on the sword. What I wanted to talk about quickly today is Pulitzer's new claim that the evidence for a Roman visit to Nova Scotia includes three Roman crossbow bolts. Here is what the story in The Epoch Times says:

"At the turn of the century, a treasure hunter unearthed a thick beam of wood. When the beam was cut up, three crossbow bolts were found inside. This means the bolts were fired from a crossbow into the tree, and the tree grew around them.

The tree is estimated to have been some 1,000 years old when it was cut down. The bolts are stuck about 3 quarters of the way in, suggesting they hit the tree hundreds of years before it was cut down, though it’s not known how long ago the tree was cut to make the wooden beam.

More precise dating of the bolts was done when they were analyzed by a U.S. military weapons testing lab, said Pulitzer. Rick and Marty Lagina, the stars of “The Curse of Oak Island,” showed Pulitzer the results of the testing.
The lab stated that the bolts came from Iberia, and that they date from the same time period as the various incursions of the Roman Empire and possibly the sword.

To support a claim that Romans made it to the New World could be considered professional suicide.

Epoch Times could not verify the lab results. Pulitzer said he asked for a copy of the results, and was promised a copy, but did not receive it. The documentation is in possession of Oak Island Tours (of which the Lagina Brothers own a controlling interest) and its partners."

The article includes a small image of one of the "crossbow bolts." I reproduce (with permission of the owner) a larger image of that same item:

One of the alleged "Roman crossbow bolts."

So, internet sleuths, we're off again!

Given what happened with the swords (and because Pulitzer has shown that he is comfortable lying if he thinks it will help his case), I'm going to say it's worthwhile to try to figure out what this thing really is. It's justifiable to give zero weight to his account of the provenience (inside a thousand-year-old tree) and whatever mysterious "lab results" are out there. I don't believe a word of that until you show me. We're just left with the artifact to look at.

Here are two ideas I have based on modern objects I have found in a quick bit of online searching:

Antique iron spike finial for a wooden fence: Iron "spear" or "spike" finials have been used to top metal gates and fences for a long time in this part of the world. The ones for metal posts or bars often have a threaded or open end for attachment (I found the one in the picture on eBay). I'm wondering if the long shank of this thing (labeled "arrow shaft fitting" in the drawing) is designed for sticking it in a wooden post? Any experts on colonial architecture out there?

Bit for some kind of old reamer. A reamer is a rotary tool used to enlarge the size of a hole. Reamers are also used to smooth out the insides of pipes. The bits often have a shank that is inserted a tool that produces the rotation. The image shown (source) is described as an "old pipe burring reamer."

I found what appears to be a very similar object for sale on Etsy (shipping from the Ukraine) for $20.68. I'm pasting a screenshot showing the item with a scale for reference. It is indeed billed as a "Roman tips crossbow arrow," but I won't put too much stock in that until I see some pictures of actual Roman crossbow bolts.

So here we go again: a story about provenience with nothing to back it; an empty assertion that "tests" have been done to prove it's authentic; hints of a cover-up; blah blah blah. It's just more weak coffee.

Maybe a Roman did wade ashore in Nova Scotia and shoot his crossbow at a sapling. Given what we've just been through, however, don't you think it's wise to look a little deeper before accepting that interpretation? Is this what Roman crossbow bolts look like? Can we hold off on throwing away our old history books until we can rule out a fence post finial and a pipe burring reamer?

I need to get back to drinking real coffee again.

Update (1/22/2016): Yesterday evening, Oak Island Compendium published this blog post arguing that the supposed "crossbow bolts" are more likely the replaceable spikes from a logging tool called a Peavey. More information is expected soon. In the meantime, please enjoy the "Log Driver's Waltz," brought to my attention by Kel Hancock.

Randal Taylor

1/21/2016 11:04:43 am

My question is this :

Why would a Roman, thousands upon thousands of miles away from home, take several arrows and shoot them into a tree? If they came over on a ship, their resources would have been limited to the extreme, which includes the recovery of weapons for further use. This is notated in history as different armies had boys to go out and collect the arrows from corpses.

Intriguing as it may be, and how much I do wish Romans came here, I do not believe this for a minute. I guarantee that there will be a story of how the "arrow heads" were brought forth from someone who "found them years ago when they were on the island illegally".

Wait for it.

killbuck

1/21/2016 03:42:37 pm

From above and the Epic Times article:

"At the turn of the century, a treasure hunter unearthed a thick beam of wood. When the beam was cut up, three crossbow bolts were found inside. "

Somebody found them... a long time ago. When or who? Where?

Clint Knapp

1/21/2016 04:02:49 pm

Turn of which century? Sixteen years ago, or a hundred and sixteen?

Is Pulitzer even aware what year it is?

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 05:04:15 pm

You will note the only names seem to be the Lagina Brothers (who probably know nothing of this) and Pulizter himself. It's not like he would want to share the "credit" with some dead treasure hunter... (unless that treasure hunter's name was Philyaw.)

Eric

1/21/2016 11:12:56 am

Romans didn't use crossbows.Romans had ballistae, crew served weapons that fire bolts, not arrows. Here are real ones. Note that Mr. Pulitzer, again, couldn't come up with a reasonable facsimile of a Roman weapon to weave stupidity around. My total time to find two different examples of real ballistae bolts-one minute and 50 seconds. Not even close.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Harzhorn-Ereignis_roemische_Katapultgeschosse_%28Braunschweigisches_Landesmuseum%29.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ballista_bolt_heads.JPG

Andy White

1/21/2016 11:14:47 am

Socketed, not tanged, I see.

Andy White

1/21/2016 11:16:56 am

He does say that they are "Iberian" and from the time period as his speculated "Roman incursions." So first centuries AD?

Eric

1/21/2016 11:45:00 am

The claims all revolve around the supposed Roman D-Day invasion of Oak Island as being during the reign of Commodus, so 180-192 CE.

Checking into the typology of variants of ballistae bolts, there is no "Iberian" style of bolt, distinctive from the others. Ballistae were originally a Greek crew served weapon, later adopted and improved by the Romans,and did not have a native Celto-Iberian origin. Roman missile projectiles were, just like almost everything else in the Roman military, manufactured in accordance with regulations and standards, displaying a uniformity unprecedented in Western armies until the Industrial Revolution. Those things he vomited forth just don't cut it.

Roger

1/21/2016 02:42:56 pm

i think he's talking about the ancient mariners that took the romans over there? so when is #boltgate and #stonegate starting? too much fun!

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:17:24 pm

Actually the Romans did have crossbows, but from what I could tell in a few minutes of research, they were more frequently used as hunting weapons, though I suppose firing at a tree might be considered practice in any case...

However, As Andy points out, the authentic bolt tips I can find are socketed, not tanged, although there are known ballista bolts that have tangs. The shape, though is only vaguely similar in outline to some ballista bolts. There are many other problems I'll go into in another post, though.

Eric

1/21/2016 05:32:40 pm

It's all hot garbage. Pulitzer has proven he hasn't even got a cursory knowledge of Roman artifacts, and he's counting on his acolytes ignoring that because academics and Catholics don't like him or something nefarious. At least he could have tried harder. Just to cover any and all bases in case he switches terminology, I'm checking out pilum points to crush that line if he chooses to use it. Might be useful to look into Scythian and other auxiliary archer units, since there is no "Roman" military arrowhead- the auxiliaries used their own indigenous weapons and points, so those would be of a wide variety. I enjoy posterizing JHP every time he tries to make a hunk of metal "Roman"

Cleo

1/21/2016 11:45:36 am

Sorry, very little chance that comes from a piece of wood that was buried for a long time in NS (necessarily implies moisture).

After a while, and it doesn't take a millennia, enough iron would have migrated into the wood to make that point tip disintegrate. (You can actually calculate the Fe migration by measuring the dark halo around a nail in a piece of furniture, i.e.) The fact you see so much of an artifact is a serious problem to the story, IMHO.

I could show a 18th century nail pulled out of a piece of wood that had sit in a damp basement; that's if I could remove it. It would come out like a larger blob of metal impregnated wood fused to the base object. If I tried to clean it electrolytically, I'd likely only have a seriously corroded remnant with obvious missing metal. That looks corroded, but not too much (lightly pocked). It still has a good point.

Iron objects exposed to moisture for long enough also expand and flake off. This looks like it is very close to its original condition. Even the thin part looks pretty intact.

How big was this beam? A trunk? Who did the dendrochronolgy?

Questioning the artifact here may be a problem. It could be what it claims to be. I don't trust the story.

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:27:37 pm

As I said above, many problems. First of all... the wood from the post was from a tree that was estimated to have been 1000 years old at the time it was cut? Seriously? We don't have a lot of trees near in the Northeast quadrant of North America that live that long and how did they estimate that from a post? Surely it did not have 1000 rings, did it?

Also just because these supposed bolts were several hundred years deep in the wood that just tells you how deeply they penetrated the trunk. Depending on the tree they might have gone all the way through. Also this was a post made from a tree which means a lot of wood was removed to make the post (if there was a post) so we really do not know how deep they were.

It also begs the question as to why the bowman did not bother to retrieve his bolts (or her bolts....). The only good reason for three in the same tree to me sounds like target practice. Okay, maybe we had a very stupid bowman who didn't realize you should wait for your target to step away from behind the tree.

Jonathan Feinstein

1/22/2016 12:28:51 am

I should have read closer... Dendrochronology (had it been practiced in this case) might have matched tree rings up with certain identifiable years and thus given someone an estimate of when the tree the post was made from was alive, but unless you had the whole trunk (or enough of it) you would not have been able to guess the age of the tree at the time it was cut down.

There are several terms for stages of tree growth used in the timber industry; Seedling, Sapling, Pole and Saw Timber. These terms are based on the thickness of the trunk and the height of the tree itself. No one in their right mind is going to cut down a two-foot wide tree (definitely saw timber) to make a post when a sapling or a pole will do. It's a lot less work to turn a sapling or a pole into a fence post - you mostly just cut to length and strip off the bark. A mille might also turn the posts down for uniformity, but the less you have to do the better. If you're building a house you want lumber from a more developed tree for a variety of uses, but for a post? You just want something to stick in the ground to hold up the fence a few years (treating with creosote will make it last a little longer than plain wood).

You could also use C14 dating if the wood is intact and has not been contaminated by additional infusions of carbon after it stopped growing. Sadly a chunk of a post in the ground does not have a very good chance of producing an accurate date that way. However C14 would also not produce the age of the tree.

Now for a moment let's imagine that a gang of Romans really did come to Nova Scotia. Romans were not, as a society, known for their laziness nor were they known for stupidity. However, would they really cut down the largest tree in the forest to produce poles from or something already about the right size.

Besides, I like the peavey point hypothesis mentioned elsewhere. Nice, simple and explains the object in the picture without needless complication. Lex parsimoniae rules!

Cleo

1/22/2016 09:28:42 am

The peavey point is a great candidate because you would want a very sharp point that does not have too much penetrating ability. The square cross section is the traditional solution still used. Initially, when I saw the object it looked like it had once had a ferule because it has what looks like a dimple in the side of it. That actually could be consistent with a peavy point too. The pyramidal point sits on what looks like a circular base that would sit in the round hole of the corresponding piece. The outer part of the peavy may have been punched in to stop the point from pulling out. You see that with hay forks on occasion.

Killbuck

1/21/2016 12:24:19 pm

To quote Douglas Adams-

As a suddenly appearing bowl of petunias fell into Earth's Atmosphere:

“Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was...

...Oh no, not again."

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:28:20 pm

I was going to say, ":Here we go again!" but you beat me to it.

Matt

1/21/2016 12:30:26 pm

The more I look at the taper, the more it bugs me. It doesn't look ancient, and it makes the object look ornamental (certainly evoking the finial theory). While a Google search turns up several medieval arrow/bolt heads with a taper, finding an authentic Roman-era one is more difficult.

Here are two supposedly Roman pieces:

http://www.antiquesnavigator.com/d-1762275/ancient-roman-bronze-arrow-headbolt-2nd-ad--no-reserve.html

http://www.antiquesnavigator.com/d-1897195/roman-iron-tanged-ballista-crossbow-bolt--83x12mm-1st-3rd-century-ad.html

While neither is stamped "Made in the Mediterranean", at least they *look* older and simpler than the tapered example found on Oak Island.

Eric

1/21/2016 12:51:59 pm

Fake and Fake. Roman arrowheads and balistae bolts are not

1. Made of bronze
2. have a tang
3. sell for $11.50 or $16.02, respectively

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:31:01 pm

The really sad thing is that real Roman arrow heads are not all that hard to buy. If I wanted to be an archaeological scammer, I would at least have started with a genuine artifact.

But I agree, the shape of that thing just looks wrong.

Andy White

1/21/2016 12:40:06 pm

These are billed as "Viking" - they're similar in shape, at least.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Viking-hunting-military-age-11-13-A-C-for-composition-arrows-arrowhead-/291663495193?hash=item43e87fc019:g:YIYAAOSwL7VWiQ-S

Andy White

1/21/2016 12:44:24 pm

This might be a good resource: the "I found this thing what the hell is it" forum. I have to get back to work, but I just wanted to point out its existence.

https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisthisthing/comments/2bhu93/wife_found_this_thing_in_a_lake_in_nova_scotia/

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:35:33 pm

Hmm, I suppose it might be a plumb bob

Ron

1/21/2016 01:16:57 pm

I suggest you check out the entity using the title 'Blockhouse Investigations' and their previous work. Looks like they landed a good one this time.

Kel Hancock link

1/21/2016 01:47:40 pm

Do you have any questions about us Ron? Anyone who would like to now anything is more than welcome to ask.
And btw folks the image of the "bolt" that Pulitzer provides is being used without my permission or accreditation. He has cropped it from an image posted by me in social media that had my watermark on it. To the best of my knowledge only one of these objects has a known location. In June of 2014, I was asked by OITI to contact the current owners to request permission to test it. Permission was not obtained. It is in private hands out of province. It is legally owned. Mr. Pulitzer has never seen, handled, inspected or tested this object.

Lacy

1/21/2016 02:45:34 pm

Kel, so where are these "artifacts"? Any way we can get them tested and proved to clear the air. How are you involved in all this?

Cleo

1/21/2016 02:46:45 pm

Is any part of his story true? Did this object come from within a "beam" coming from the earth? I imagine it is all made up on top of being created from lifted images.

Bob Bell

1/21/2016 03:22:11 pm

Do you know what kind of metal it is made out of?

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:39:51 pm

Thanks for coming forward, Kel. I think we all appreciate the confirmation that Pulitzer is pulling absolutely everything about this out of his posterior (not that this is news, really, but knowing for certain is priceless!).

What else can you tell us about it, please?

Eric

1/21/2016 01:23:02 pm

Someone should meme this and post it to our boy Pulitzer.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gYNUOkqzcVA/maxresdefault.jpg

ghettohillbilly1

1/21/2016 02:08:39 pm

I can confirm this is bogus a few ways #1 iron/steel does not survive that long in our climate in Nova Scotia, ( we even get salt snows and salt fog that corrodes our power lines, I have seen galvanized barbed wire rust out within 40-50 years hell ive seen 6 inch galvanized spike i drove into a tree when i was a kid rust off, I've also seen cannon balls 200-300 years old found in NS that were 3/4 rusted away, some had even grown into the roots of the spruce trees but were severly rusted, even if it was real it wasnt from NS it just cannot last that long here #2 the 1000 year old tree, wasnt the oak trees they only live 100-200 years, cant think of any trees that get that old around here,possibly in the distant past but on a mahone bay island? I highly doubt it, this isnt the mid west the weather here can be brutal and 3 if a beam was found how could you tell how old the tree was ALL the rings would be gone, also the tree/beam would be many feet in diameter,as per usual it doesnt add up, he's grasping at straws if you needed i can get you pics of what happens to metal in trees here, if there is anyway possible i can help feel free to ask, people forget how harsh the climate here can be sometimes lol

James Lawrence

1/21/2016 02:40:12 pm

Wow, he's really just grasping/desperate now isn't he?

Next it will be a Little Caesers pizza box.

Sad...

Lacy

1/21/2016 02:47:29 pm

i think he said they are "ancient" oak trees that lived to 1000 years old and they were inside the trunk so protected from the environment?

Killbuck

1/21/2016 03:33:05 pm

Buuuut.... but but...

Are Oak trees indigenous the the area? I heard (oh dear, heard they are not).

Ok, legend time.... wasn't it Sinclair of the Templars who supposedly planted the trees as a marker for other Templars to see? Not supporting this but have no clue as to veracity.

Or... what.... ppppft

Trevor Kenchington

1/21/2016 04:48:34 pm

Red oak is native to Nova Scotia, including all around Oak Island, though white oak (a far better structural timber) is not.

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:51:24 pm

The inside of a living tree is not dry and oak sap is mildly acidic. Maybe stainless steel or gold would survive, but not iron or bronze.

ghettohillbilly1

1/21/2016 06:01:27 pm

I doubt stainless would last either, it rusts out pretty bad here if exposed to the elements so acids and tannins in the tree sap would most likely degrade it

Killbuck

1/21/2016 10:21:17 pm

Thank you as I wondered. In early episodes of the show they stated that oaks were not native and were a product of Sinclair's visit. Which seemed an odd claim.

Trevor Kenchington

1/22/2016 05:02:46 am

If Sinclair ever sailed to what is now Nova Scotia (which is extremely unlikely), only those obsessed with Oak Island would place him there. Those obsessed with Sinclair tend to put him further east.

As to stainless steel: It rusts quickly in any environment that shuts it off from oxygen. The "stainless" property comes by forming a thin, shiny oxide layer on the surface -- makes for a nasty surprise when someone tries using stainless keel bolts in a boat!

Jonathan Feinstein

1/22/2016 05:09:41 am

Okay, so cancel what I said about stainless. I was just casting about for an alloy that might possibly have survived and yet did not exist in the ancient world. Thining about it, I have seen corroded Stainless, so... duh!

Cleo

1/21/2016 03:03:48 pm

If one foolishly accepted that this was a point that penetrated a tree, one would still have to concede that it would never penetrate deep enough with this type of non slicing square taper to ever cover the inner "nail" part. That would have necessarily been exposed and would have rusted off well before the tree grew over it.

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:54:28 pm

Good point! (pun not intended) and even if the piece did penetrate entirely, it would have taken a year or three at least for the hold to completely close over. Plus, as I said above, oak sap is acidic

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:49:42 pm

I said something similar about tree ages above, but you beat me to it. Bristlecone pines and other long-lived species just don't live around these parts (though I'm a bit further south in SE Massachusetts) and the chance of a bolt surviving that long, first for several centuries in a tree and then after it was cut? Well, maybe if buried in a peat bog, but then it would not have been useable as postwood. I'm still trying to figure out how they could estimate how old a tree was from the rings on a post, though. If an Oak could live that long (it couldn't, but...) it would probably be 8-10 feet across, To have enough of the trunk in the post to estimate the age accurately? Well heck... that's some post!

1/21/2016 03:01:35 pm

Looks like those 'iron spikes' are plentiful and cheap.
These look remarkably similar, although aging is more visible.

http://www.antiquesnavigator.com/d-1055261/9-roman-iron-arrow-heads--1610.html

I read somewhere that these might be the armor piercing variety.

Cleo

1/21/2016 03:24:52 pm

I think the troubling issue here is that he allegedly took someone's photo of a relic and interpreted it to be consistent with his narrative. The verified by testing bit is just part of his ongoing MO. You have to be in the inner sanctum to see the proof or pre order his book.

1/21/2016 04:40:10 pm

I'm trying to give Andy some more info regarding his question: "Is this what Roman crossbow bolts look like?"

Your statement of what the troubling issue is does not reflect with me, i am more interested in WHAT it is then WHO is talking about it (and if they are academic or commercial in primary interests)

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 04:58:01 pm

The part I laughed at hardest was the confession that he supposedly smuggled these putative points out of Canada so that anonymous US military "experts" could examine them. And as I said above... They're cheap enough to buy. Get a few and plant them then be seen finding one... Then again, that's almost like work, isn't it.

Mike Jones

1/22/2016 06:32:43 am

Just note the condition of the points in Ph's link above and the condition of the "Philyaw point". The back story is obviously BS. As noted above, nobody whittles down large beams into fence posts.

Justin Demetri link

1/21/2016 03:06:12 pm

From my experience, any type of untreated iron that is in direct contact with species of oak (which I'm assuming since the name of the island) becomes "iron sick"and makes the wood and metal rot faster than normal. It happens even faster in a maritime environment. It has something to do with the chemical reaction between the iron and the wood (tannins I think). This is why in wooden shipbuilding, tree-nail (trunnel) fastenings were preferred for the New England/ Nova Scotian fishing schooners. The spike fastened vessels, galvanized or not, did not last as long.

Similar to ghettohillbillly1 above, I've snapped spikes with my bare hands, once the zinc wears off they get brittle and the wood gets dark and soft.

Jonathan Feinstein

1/21/2016 05:00:05 pm

Huh! I knew you could kill a tree with copper nails. I wasn't aware that iron was so damaging as well. Thanks

1/21/2016 03:17:04 pm

Professor Michael J. Fuller, Ph.D has a nice foto from a museum in Novograd (i assume) displaying some crossbowbolts, lots of variations. the image is not good enough for accuracy, but i think there is a match.

http://users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/novgorod/NovgorodMus327crossbowBolts.jpg

Cleo

1/21/2016 03:48:32 pm

They all look like 2 or 3 sided points to me. There's a definite finesse to those artifacts too. A four sided tapered point gives a lot away in piercing/penetrating ability. Might be good for denting armor, though, or reaming a hole. The closest thing I have seen to it with four sides is actually a semi-modern tooth from a spike tooth harrow, but why would any of those be in NS attached to a piece of wood in a field , right?

Artifact is nice, but artifact without anything else tells you nothing. Whatever it is; it's open for speculation and closed to being a smoking gun.

1/21/2016 04:31:22 pm

There are certainly some 4 sided ones in the lower row.

Any references why such a form is not good for armor piercing?

"Artifact is nice, but artifact without anything else tells you nothing. Whatever it is; it's open for speculation and closed to being a smoking gun. "

That's just ridiculous, do you have any idea how many test can be performed to asses a legion of attributes to an artifact without speculating?
Try Carbon 14, Mass spectrometry, and the list goes on....

Trevor Kenchington

1/21/2016 05:06:03 pm

Are these not examples of the famous "bodkin point" (as in Agincourt, Shakespeare's Henry V, and all that), which could pierce mail and, by repute, put a nasty dent in plate armour? Reproductions of 4-sided ones are readily available on the www for the re-enactment crowd, the tanged ones that I can immediately find don't have bodkin points, while the bodkins (and other types) are sold as socketed heads.

Not impossible that Kel's image is of a genuine arrowhead -- though perhaps not Roman and probably not found shot into a tree on Oak Island!

1/21/2016 05:21:05 pm

Yes, they look very much like the square bodkin points, not like the long narrow bodkin.

Jonathan Feinstein

1/22/2016 06:03:06 am

That depends on what the size of the pictured point is. The Blockhouse picture details the shape of the piece, but there is nothing there for scale. Size matters.

Trevor Kenchington

1/22/2016 06:42:47 am

I tried writing in block capitals, like the labels on the Blockhouse Investigations image, and scaled from there. If they write at the same size I do, the shoulder above the tang matches a shaft about 20mm in diameter. I have big, clumsy hands, so likely bigger writing. Still, the supposed Oak Island object looks too big to match an arrow fired from a hand-held bow (as distinct from a Roman ballista).

I wonder whether the same basic shape has been used to add an iron (or steel) point to the end of a wooden shaft for many different purposes: small sizes for armour-piercing arrows, middle-sized ones for hiker's alpenstocks, larger ones for lumbermen's peaveys and so forth?

Jonathan Feinstein

1/22/2016 07:15:00 am

It's a fairly basic shape for a point and as you indicate, the shape is fairly useful for any number of purposes, so, yeah, sure, I think it is safe to say it may well have been used for all those purposes. Definitely not something I would rule out!

Ron

1/21/2016 05:19:54 pm

Are you the Kelly W Hancock? Love your work guys, been following it awhile.

Oak Island Fan

1/21/2016 05:55:11 pm

Andy,

As an avid Oak Island mystery fan, I thoroughly enjoyed your posts and have become a regular reader of your blog. Good job!

I stumbled upon this Youtube video about a brand new kind of imagination of the Money Pit. The presentation made my laugh hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvK1qdYzMdY

Do you have any comments on it?

Thanks. Please keep up the superb work.

Jay

1/22/2016 12:55:58 am

I couldn't watch the whole one-hour video, but if that guy's basically positing the theory that the initial discovery was the remnants of an old, buried Viking ship, well... That's actually one of the earlier theories put forward by some other people years ago, as a way to possibly explain the "tiered" wood planking. And as far as theories go, it ironically sounds pretty plausible nowadays, compared to all the other theories out there. But the premise still rests on some key aspects; mainly, that the original discovery really existed as it was described (which has been disputed)...

Peter Geuzen

1/21/2016 06:47:41 pm

Updated Swordgate poster:

http://imgur.com/3Yf01mo

Doing one for crossbow bolts just isn't going to feel the same.

Jonathan Feinstein

1/22/2016 04:48:23 am

I was amused to receive an email from eBay asking if I wanted a second look at the Florida eBay sword this morning (likely because I had gone and looked at it after it was posted the other day).

As I'm sure we all know the owner is asking $1000 for it, but I had not realized he was not including shipping at that price. Wow, hoping for a sucker, that one is.

Andy White

1/22/2016 06:20:55 am

Nice. Did you see the new photos of the Sonja sword? Also I think there will be at least one more new one on the way soon (hopefully in the next day or two).

Peter Geuzen

1/22/2016 07:17:04 am

I have a real job, you know. haha

I assumed as much...swords will be popping up consistently. I like the fact that typology grouping can actually happen as more surface.

Killbuck

1/22/2016 08:31:11 am

Like.

Make room for more, you'll need it.

Andy White

1/21/2016 07:23:53 pm

Hi folks. Check this out:http://www.oakislandcompendium.ca/blockhouse-blog

Trevor Kenchington

1/21/2016 07:34:33 pm

Sweet!

I never knew that peavey points were replaceable but it makes sense. Any guesses as to whether the supposed "crossbow bolt" is around the right size?

John

1/21/2016 07:39:09 pm

Weird, Andy didn't actually post that and it looks like a copy of this blog.

Andy White

1/22/2016 05:31:48 am

Huh?

Jonathan Feinstein

1/22/2016 06:06:30 am

Just using the same Blog service. Even with a selection of templates to start from there will be similarities of design.

Cleo

1/22/2016 08:56:21 am

Looks like the perfect match. The circular cross sectioned tang is a strong suggester that it wasn't ancient.

1/21/2016 08:19:25 pm

My money is on 10th-14th century bodkin arrow or quarrel heads.

Bobby B.

1/21/2016 08:25:28 pm

As many civilizations are claimed to have visited Oak Island, I've come to the conclusion Oak Island must have been the original spring break capital of the ancient world.

Jonathan Feinstein

1/22/2016 12:35:53 am

Lol! I can see the tourist brochures now. "Oak Island in the spring: We have nor'easters!"

Matt

1/22/2016 06:21:00 am

Setting aside whether these are really ancient and that someone would part with them for less than $10, the shapes are very similar to the Oak Island artifact:

http://www.antiquesnavigator.com/d-321099/matncat84-roman--greek-iron-crossbow-bolt-tip--b26.html

Would be nice to find a picture like this from a museum rather than an online auction. Alas, the vast majority are from the latter.

Andy White

1/22/2016 06:24:04 am

Yeah, it is telling something interesting, I think, that it's much easier to find "matches" to these objects through online sources connected with sales than online sources connected to actual archaeological data. I hope that's something that changes at some point in the future.

Eric

1/22/2016 05:12:56 pm

Found 25 Roman arrowheads, with a scale, excavated from a legionary camp in Wales.

ghettohillbilly1

1/22/2016 11:01:50 am

Now hes being blocked by facebook lol, I think word of his fraudulent claims are getting out, this guy needs a gag order https://medium.com/@InvestigatingHistory.org/roman-finds-in-north-america-so-controversial-that-facebook-is-blocking-the-viral-news-and-release-cbe17cc7aa9a#.w15di7inr

Jonathan Feinstein

1/22/2016 11:46:12 am

I originally had this jerk pegged as just another "pot-hunter" with a slightly larger than average mouth and an monumentally larger than life ego, but this is just plain over the line of sanity.

As a one-time archaeology student I can attest the so-called archaeological drawing is anything but. I had to draw dozens of artifacts (pots, knives, axes, spear points etc) for my thesis so I think I know what I am talking about (if nothing else, no of my readers took any issue with my drawings or their accuracy)

So when he shows a picture of a tree stump in which has been cut 3/4 away in one section with no indication of scale, location or any other sort of useful information. it is meaningless tripe.

Then the stump doesn't even come close to the size of an oak native to Nova Scotia would be if it had been 1000 years old. As drawn I'd estimate a red oak (I think someone said red oaks grown on the island) of that appearance would be maybe thirty or forty years old, but let's assume I am underestimating and call it an even century, but certainly no more.

Now let's take his fairy tale a step further: he claimed the "arrowheads" (which Kel may be right are peavey points or something similar... I'll admit I think he has a good suggestion there) were found in a post, If so , he should have depicted them in a post, not a stump.

However, if the tree was even a century old, no one would have made a post out of it. For reasons I posted earlier, posts are made from trees of sapling and sometimes pole size, not saw timber, so even If these were arrow heads, and If they had been inside of a century-old tree (I refuse to entertain the fiction of a 1000-year old red oak (I write SF and fantasy these days, but even I wouldn't try to put that in a story... I might write about a particularly stupid charlatan trying to foist archaeological hoaxes off on the public and the penalties there of...) and IF they has somehow survived being turned into crumbly bits, or maybe just a stain on the wood by the sap. It is still highly improbably anyone would have attempted to turn that tree into a post and if they had, they would have found those points (and possibly broken saw teeth or turning bits on them) while turning it into a post. Have I cover the possibilities? maybe.

Why does this... person of dubious wisdom... keep bringing up items that could not possibly have survived the conditions he postulates. Want to fake a Roman site? Find some pot sherds of a distinctive Roman type and scatter them around a stone with a Latin inscription... maybe just a date... but swords in sea water for 1800 years or supposed arrowheads in a 1000 year old tree?

Sorry, no it's just too obvious a lie. in fact anything Pulitzer sdays from now on I will have to assume is blatantly false. Even if he makies a statement I know to be true (like my own name) I'm going to doubt without valid corroboration from someone who is not incapable making a true statement.

I hope this statement is actionable enough because I would love to see him have to prove me wrong in court.

Comments are closed.

Colonial Fence Part (?) Added to "Evidence" of Ancient Roman Occupation of Nova Scotia

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